Episode 26 College Edition | How Do I Pick a Major?

Welcome to Ask Your Work Wife: College Edition, where Vanessa & Holland go back to school to answer top questions from college students who are headed into Corporate America.

First up, that all-important question (and yes, it does fucking matter): how do I pick a major?

Listen. You can study underwater basket weaving if you want, but pick the right major in college and these four years can be a major investment in your career, your next three moves, and getting what you want.

Got a question for Ask Your Work Wife?

Record your question and email us the recording. Include your name, your city if you want, and whatever context might be helpful for us to know. And don’t forget to start with “Hey, Work Wives!”

Transcript

Vanessa: Consider this your fair warning. We talk fast, we move fast, we swear fast, so if you're listening at 2x speed you may miss some content, but you'll also miss the F-bombs. You're welcome. This is Ask Your Work Wife: College Edition, where Vanessa and Holland go back to school.

Holland: We're answering the five most important questions we get from college students who are headed into corporate America.

Vanessa: We want to make sure you are set up for success before you even get that diploma in hand.

Holland: Let's fucking go.

Vanessa: Ask Your Work Wife goes back to school.

Holland: ...to school, bitch.

Vanessa: First question: how do I pick a major?

Holland: This is the question, right? I wish someone, let me just say, I wish I was ei-seventeen.

Vanessa: Seventeen it was a good year for me, actually. It was fantastic.

Holland: Same, right. I graduated from high school when I was 17. This would have been better when I was 16 then, right, uh, working backwards.

Vanessa: I graduated and turned 18 on the same day. And everyone in the graduation line sang happy birthday to me. It was amazing.

Holland: Of course they did.

Vanessa: Naturally.

Holland: I know why you are the way you are now. Um, but like, wouldn't it have been so nice, and Vanessa are going to talk about, like, why this would have been so nice for us to have when we were young. Uh, are we sounding old now? Godammit.

Vanessa: Also, I just heard Adele a little bit, so I was like, anyway.

Holland: Um, but the question we get asked all the time, and that we wish we had had answered for ourselves when we were in high school... How do I pick a major?

Vanessa: Yeah, and, and sometimes it doesn't come out exactly that clear. It's usually like, what's the best major? What's the major's going to be, make me the most money? What's the, like, how do I do this college thing anyway? What am I going for? Like, and then there's the, then there's the kids that don't even know, like, "I just want to learn underwater basket weaving and like, follow my dreams." And you're like, "Okay."

Holland: That was me. Spoiler alert.

Vanessa: You wanna tell us about that?

Holland: Maybe a little later.

Vanessa: Yeah, so we're like, we really want to make sure this episode addresses that. Like, giving you a framework for like what, what college is, even, right?

Holland: ...for, especially if you have a frame of mind that you want to go into corporate America, post-college.

Vanessa: Yeah. Exactly. Because it starts today. Like, I don't know how to help you if you don't understand that. But like, but like college is.

Holland: ... the podcast is for, Vanessa. That's how you're helping, actually.

Vanessa: ...that what's...

Holland: That's, okay. Cool.

Vanessa: Um, but like, this moment right here, like, from the second you graduate high school, through graduation of college is an investment in your corporate career. This is investment in your life. It's a step that can get you closer to what you want. But you've got four years to not fuck around and find out. You got to get in, get the thing done, and move on to the next thing. If you do it really well, you can make a lot of fucking money.

Holland: This series of episodes is going to be starting at this point, with how to pick a major, we're going to move on from there. But we also just want to acknowledge that there are other ways besides a four year degree to, to get at this outcome.

Vanessa: Spoiler: one of us doesn't have a four year...

Holland: One of us. And one of us has a degree that isn't relevant to corporate America at all. But, um, we're going to address specifically how to accomplish the same goal without a four-year degree. There are other ways to do that, which we totally support.

Vanessa: And that's going to be episode five. So, starting with how to pick a major, moving through that, episode five will be alternatives to the four year collegiate experience, if you will. So if you want to just skip through and go to that, that seems fine, too.

Holland: If you're listening this episode and you're like, "Wait, I'm not in college. I've not been in college for some time now." If you're like us, is there someone in your life who needs this episode? My little sister... We've been talking about this stuff for seven years. And you know what, she's doing a great job.

Vanessa: I think everyone with little sister has been a college advisor at some point. I did this with my sister. And I wish I'd had a resource like this. It was like, hi, I'm not going to spend my 20 hours — because they're now worth $125 an hour, you're welcome — I'm just going to give you this content and it's exactly what I would've told you.

Holland: Exactly. I'm also planning on giving this content to my son when he's 14, 15, 16.

Vanessa: Go off.

Holland: So, share with your little sister, share with your sorority sisters, share with your cousin, your niece, your... Obviously.

Vanessa: Send 'em our Instagram, Ask Your Work Wife.

Holland: We'd love to have 'em.

Vanessa: Okay, back to your story, Holland. I need to know: why, why is your degree useless in corporate America.

Holland: First of all. As a young person, I was musician, which is very passion aligned for me.

Vanessa: I often forget this about you, so I started explaining musical things to you, and then I'm like, literally preaching the choir. It's fine.

Holland: Lol. In high school, I was, there were structures in place that allowed me to do what I wanted. Like, my parents were supportive, they paid for lessons, they were like, oh, that sounds interesting, let's do it. And that was always kind of like how I pursued my path, as a young person. And, and what that ended up leading to was, was an opportunity to go be a professional musician, to study music, and, and move into a space where I would be qualified to be a musician. And that's really cool.

Vanessa: Yeah, that seems...

Holland: Like...

Vanessa: So, Holland, what I'm hearing is you, you want to do this, you're passionate music, and so, so the next natural step in that framework you had at that time was let's go to college for this.

Holland: That's exactly right. Like I just, just took the next thing that was in front of me, which was to go to college. I got in, I got into the best school in the country. Amazing. Wow.

Vanessa: That does not surprise anyone who's listening, actually, like, "Oh, Holland is an over-achiever?" It turns out.

Holland: Yeah, but I did, and, and that was amazing, like, how great for me, but, but I still had no sense of what I wanted to do with that. In fact, I remember, in high school, when I was studying with a wedding musician, I was like, "Oh, I'll be a wedding musician." And then when I started later in high school, studying with an orchestra, like a symphonic harpist, I was like, "Oh, I'll be in a symphony." And then when I went to college, and I worked with like harp professors, I was like, "Oh, it'd be a harp professor." And then I was like, it was just like, bouncing around.

Vanessa: ...sounds like, Runaway Bride, and she doesn't know, she doesn't know how she likes her eggs, cause just takes the egg preference of her fiance at the time.

Holland: A hundred percent. I was like, "Oh, well this is the thing. Now this is the thing." I had no plan. In any given moment, was only in the thing that was in front of me that I was planning on doing. And so, when life hit me like a speeding bullet train...

Vanessa: Okay.

Holland: I don't know. Is that not a...

Vanessa: No, that's great. I just, it was very painful for me at that moment.

Holland: Like very visceral reaction. Like, I, the relationship I was in fell apart. And all of a sudden, I needed to like, make money.

Vanessa: Yeah.

Holland: And turns out I wasn't doing that with harp, I didn't have a way to do that with, with music and, there was nothing there. All I had was $26,000 of debt.

Vanessa: Is that how much a harp costs?

Holland: That's how much the harp...

Vanessa: That's a car, everyone.

Holland: ...a new car.

Vanessa: ...could have an Ub— thriving Uber business at this point.

Holland: Yeah. And I remember, like at some point my husband was like, we were buying this instrument, and he was like, "So when are..." Like, "What are you...?" Like, all in love, which was so kind, but he was like, "When are you making money on this investment?" I was like, "What are you talking about? Like, this is a, this is my..." Yeah, exactly. And I like had no plans to like, start a business, make money. I was like doing a little bit here and there on the side, but we're talking like...

Vanessa: Not to make $26,000 back.

Holland: ...of money did not add up to anything. Do you know what I mean? But I was having a great time. Again, until I realized that I actually needed money and there was no husband with $26,000 lying around anymore. God damn. Uh, appreciate it. But, um, so yeah, like I just, I think I talked about my "oh, shit" moment with this, in...

Vanessa: five.

Holland: One. Episode...

Vanessa: Yeah. We're talking about this a...

Holland: I know. It's like a formative moment in my life, but I don't want anyone who's asking this question to end up like that. Like, I want you to have a plan. And I'm not saying it's easy, but like, having any type of plan is better than having none at all. And I'm not saying you can't be a thriving, successful musician. People do it all the time.

Vanessa: But you need to know that that's what you want to do. Like, I think that's also worth pointing out is like, the moment you graduate from high school, you don't have to have your life completely planned out for the next 40 years, right? Like, that's impossible and you'll only end up in disappointment.

Holland: A hundred percent. Do you have a plan, and then, to Vanessa's point, don't be afraid to switch if, if your needs change.

Vanessa: Yeah. That's like, that's my college story. I got early admission to my school, and early admission to the communications department. Cause you know, me and my little Gemini butterfly self, like, we are communicators. So like, I was early admission, and talked to the Dean, like we're like doing all the great things. Great GPA. Great ACT. Great SAT, like...

Holland: Oh, the greatest ACT, in fact, like, it couldn't get any greater, if you know what I'm saying.

Vanessa: But I will tell you it's not on my resume.

Holland: But now you know, I just think people should know. I just think people should...

Vanessa: You can brag about me all you'd like. So like, I got accepted to the university, the communications school and I like, I loved it, it was great. But I also have this passion for Chinese, so I was like taking some Chinese classes, so I was, I was taking a lot of classes. I loved every bit of it. And then I just real—, like maybe after two or three of the comms classes, I was like, this is really easy for me. I'm not learning anything because these things are already inherent in me. Show up, smile on your face. Like, I wanted to even push it into crisis communication because it was challenging. But crisis comms didn't exist as an industry at that moment. So I, like, I sat down, I was like, okay, I can switch my major around to like challenge myself in learning. So I switched it to Asian studies, which is like a very broad topic of like, here's humanities, here's arts and letters, here's religion, here's the language component, like learning an Asian language. I know more about ancient Chinese artifacts, and oracle bones, and like the whole, like the oldest piece of pottery and phallic symbols than you can ever imagine. These, these are facts that I still have in my head and they're just taking up hard drive space at this point. It's ridiculous. ...different podcast. But like I just, so I switched to Asian studies. Absolutely loved it. I dug all the way in, I did all these sit, like I fucking adored all of it. But at the end of the moment, I was just like, I don't know what I'm going to do with this. Like, I can either go further in academia, which was, at that moment, not a plan. Um, now it's my retirement plan.

Holland: It's a different...

Vanessa: Yeah.

Holland: It's still a plan. Not a plan. Not

Vanessa: ...right. Actually ended up taking a massive break from school. I'm talking several years. I'm trying to count.

Holland: She's, she's putting her fingers up and like, thinking.

Vanessa: Seven years? Took seven years off of school and was like, I don't want to put more — I was paying for school and cash by myself. My parents paid for like first semester. And they were like, now this is on you, boo. That's fine. But I, I don't want to put more money into school, to like, learn things that I could read on my own. I did make the decision, like I went off and worked for seven years. Then I made the decision to come back to school to finish my degree. And when I came back, I had like all of this work experience all of a sudden, and then approaching school became a totally different thing. I went to, to the counselor's office, She's like, "So what, like, what would you like to do?" And I was like, "I need to graduate. That's it." Because the only thing I cared about in that moment was like, a degree will make me more money. It doesn't matter what the degree is because I'd been in the workforce. I had a lot of experience. And I just needed to like, check a box. Do you have a college degree? Yup. Right. Cause some employers care about that. And she's like, "Oh." She pulled out this list. Shitty green paper that ev— every academia person I know prints on this, I don't understand why. I don't know. It's not even a good co—. Anyway. So it was stapled together. It was a list of majors offered in the university in order of credits required. The lowest... Lowest to highest. She went down the list, and she's like, "Stop me when something sounds interesting." I was like, "God bless you, everyone." So she started reading them. She's like, "Do, do you want to graduate in Finnish?" "No." " You want to graduate underwater basket weaving?" "No." Just went down this list, until she finally was like, "Wait, political science." And I was like, "Tell me more." She pulled up the credit requirements. Turns out like between, between comms, Asian studies, honors, all these things that I had done, I had was 90% there to political science degree. I was like, " LFG." So, we laid out a plan where had like, maybe three semesters left. Went to town on it. It was amazing. And political science became like, okay, political science set me up for law really nicely, set me up for communications really nicely, cause you're writing, oh my God, I wrote 40 pages, 40 pages every six weeks. Right, like, it was crazy. Some of my best work. I've published. It was great. So I, I'd say like, don't be afraid of switching your plans, don't be afraid to like, not having it totally planned out, but like, to your point, you need to have at least some idea of a plan that this is... Maybe it's not a plan, it's a framework, but like, this is an investment on your career, and like everything you do from day one of college through graduation can impact negatively or positively your ability to get a job and make money in this world.

Holland: We're going to talk about a little bit more about how to think about constructing that plan, that framework, after the break. So we will circle back.

Vanessa: Oh, my gosh.

Vanessa: I super love this series. The Ask Your Work Wife: College Edition makes me so happy. I love — Holland knows this — I love working with teenagers more than probably anything else.

Holland: ...does.

Vanessa: One of the things that I realize though, is like, there are a lot of parents who are not set up to coach their kids through high school, through college, through building a career. Because the world of corporate America has changed. We talk about this every week on...right. So one thing we'd like to offer specifically during this five week period where Vanessa and Holland are goin' back to school, is free career coaching to anyone who's in high school and freshman year of college. This is a multi thousand dollar value thing. But we feel so passionately about setting students up for success, getting into corporate America, and God, single-handedly closing that wage gap for women, that we are willing to put our time and energy into this, unpaid, in order to get you what you want.

Holland: So if you're interested, and we hope you are, send us an email at help@askyourworkwife.com. And we can't wait to hear from you.

Holland: And we're back. Before the break, we were talking about the importance of having at least some semblance of a plan and not being afraid to change the plan as needed. But let's talk a little bit about how do we make a plan.

Vanessa: Yeah, I think my favorite example of this is actually in my cousin, Nate. Calling it out, Nate. Sorry.

Holland: Hi, Nate.

Vanessa: But anyone who knows him and listens to this will just be floored by what I'm about to say. He was going to go to dental school.

Holland: Tell me more about Nate, uh, Vanessa.

Vanessa: Nate and his current iteration.

Holland: I'm going to tell everybody about Nate.

Vanessa: You should.

Holland: I didn't know this dental situation about Nate till moments ago. I'm finding out with you all. Nate lives in Washington and Nate lives in an apartment that is more plants than floor.

Vanessa: ...accurate. Yeah, that's...

Holland: I recently was shown a picture of mushrooms sprouting. Yeah. I just want you appreciate, like, he's not like a normal millennial with like his plants and his like, dogs.

Vanessa: ...plant nerd...

Holland: ...like, plants everywhere. When you say that this man was going to go to dental school,

Vanessa: ...my God.

Holland: I think we just need to like, pause and appreciate the juxtaposition a little bit.

Vanessa: Yeah. And he was spending, even worse, like, he was spending four years in college preparing for dental school. And like, he was all...

Holland: ...the way to college for this.

Vanessa: And the only, the only factor in that decision was dentists make a lot of money. And my cousin, Nate, is only one generation removed from the farm. Like his father is a farmer on our family property in Washington. So like, this is the first time anyone from his family has gone to college.

Holland: Oh...

Vanessa: Okay, where me and my family, we're two generations removed because both my parents went to college, right, so like, he went, "Okay, I go to college to make money. I will go into college with nothing. I will come out of college with this ability to make a shit ton of money. College is an investment in my future." Right. So he picked a major that would get him the most money.

Holland: So that's a plan, right? That's what we're talking about at first, I think he had a plan, he knew the value of college or the potential of college. He went in with that ROI expectation. And he was a fucking miserable. Every single class was just like, he hated it. He was like, I'm not finding that I'm terribly good at it, but I can be good at it, I just don't care. Like I'm just miserable. And then he was like, wandering the halls and like, found these like nerdy plant people and just like followed them, he was like, "Those are my people."

Holland: ...people.

Vanessa: Turns out, he found there's an entire major called horticulture. And he was like, "Wait a second. You're telling me that I can go to college to learn about plants. And it's not tied to farming necessarily," like that, that was an important thing for him. So, yeah, so he just started doing the research and realized like, "Oh, I can do the thing that I'm passionate about, and make money off of it. Let's do that."

Holland: Yes. Think about the ROI. Think about the money. Think about what you're going to put into college and what you're going to get out of it. But equally important is this passion...

Vanessa: Yeah.He's making it happen. He's now got his dream job. He's making the amount of money he wants to make, and he's like, living where he wants to live, and he's doing what he wants to do. And it's amazing. Like, a- ma- zing. And every, right, and every time I think back on that, like poor kid who like was suffering for two years thinking, "Oh my God, I have to go through this like fucking dental school bullshit in order to like, make any..." money?

Holland: year career as a dentist. I just, the thing about this, for anyone who has this question is like, this is your life. This is your fucking life. And like, the moment that you turn away from being passion aligned, being aligned with your desires, repressing any need or want that you have, it just becomes unsustainable really quickly. So it's really important that you really honor what's true about you, what you want. You have to know. And I'm not saying that's easy to, to, to figure out it's, it's not, it can be very difficult and it changes over time. And like, this is a constant practice. Yeah. But to whatever extent that you can at this point in your life, wherever you're at right now, is, is pay attention to what you want. And then, and then do that little framework that we've talked about earlier, and on early episodes, like, "Okay, how do I get there? How can I align this? How could it, how can I look at the vertical? Can I establish earning potential for this, for this passion?" Right. That's exactly what Nate did.

Vanessa: If anyone is as old as I am, which... probably not because it's the collegiate episodes, it's fine, She's All That is an amazing film. Forget High School Musical. She's All That was like the epitome of like the high school romcom thing. You should go watch it. And like, there's this whole sequence where like, Freddie Prinze Jr.'s trying to date this girl, who's like a total art nerd and turning into the next prom queen. It's a whole thing. Yes. Classic. And of course, she takes him to like, this avant-garde art show downtown. He gets called up on stage, like do performance art right there.

Vanessa: And he's just standing there awkwardly, and he pulls a hacky sack out of his pocket — so fucking nineties — but the thing that's on his mind is not letting any of these balls he's trying to juggle in the air — expectations, whatever, whatever — drop, and so he's got this hacky sack, he starts playing with it, and he keeps saying, "Don't let it drop. Don't let it drop."He's trying to balance the pressure of his dad and the pressure of his mom, and like, the like the group pressure from like being the cool kid in school. And like, there's some expectation that he goes to like, UCLA or like wherever, like, goes to Dartmouth, or goes to his dad's like, whatever the thing is, right. And there's just like, all of this pressure on this 18 year old to like, live up to everyone else's expectations. I remember watching that and like, resonating with it, and several years later, I was working with a meditation coach, he specialized in human development and especially adult development. And he, he lined out this process where he's just like, "The natural course of human development is to go from a group to an individual." When you're really young, you think about like fifth grade, right. You're like, "Oh, I'm the fifth grade class, not the fourth grade class". Right, like, and there's like strength in numbers, and like, "Oh, I'm in fifth grade now." Like, this is the thing, right. But you get into junior high and you start, like, separating a little bit. You're like, "Okay, so there's like, the like, drama kids and they're like music kids and whatever." But at the time you get in high school, you got like, "Okay, I got like the soccer jocks. I got the football jocks. I got the like lacrosse jocks. I got...

Vanessa: ...the

Holland: cool drama kids and the uncool drama kids...

Vanessa: I got the, yeah, the AV kids... You got, you got the band kids, the orchestra kids, the choir kids. And even then, you got like the Altos and the Sopranos. Altos are awesome. Everyone, Sopranos are a little bit useless. So, right. It's like, what you were seeing here, is just like, this further stratification of like, of like, the group. Yes, exactly. So by the time you get to college, you're really making, I love what you said, individuation, you're making choices for you, and what you want to do. That's it. And like, so many people keep trying to make decisions like, "Oh, what is my freshmen class... what was my like, sorority group was like, what is my...

Holland: What do my parents...

Vanessa: Yeah, the- uh, like the last, the last bastion of a little group that you have to think about is your family, right? Like, what do my parents want? What are my siblings doing? Am I, am I the odd man out? So, if you find yourself making decisions that feel like they're going against the grain, you're making the right decisions. You need to be making decisions for you, and not anyone else. It's what's supposed to happen at this point in your life. Regardless of whether you're like starting college, or if you're in the middle of college, just take a beat and like assess where you're at. What is my major? What am I studying? And like, what's the earning potential of it. And does that earning potential match the lifestyle I want in the future? And am I value aligned in my passion, in things that I'm interested in. And if, if those two things are different, like if the earning potential is great, but you hate what you're doing, it's time to readjust cause I promise there's ways to make money out there. Not everyone needs to be a doctor in order to make quarter million dollars, okay. And in fact, doctors are really making quite a bit anyway...

Holland: Do your research...

Vanessa: ...world's changed, right? So it's like, now's the time to really take a look at like what you're doing, are you doing it for you? And is it something that's sustainable and is going to give you really good ROI in the future?

Holland: Got a question for Ask Your Work Wife? Record your question and email the recording to help@askyourworkwife.com. Include your name, your city if you want, and whatever context might be useful for us to know. And don't forget to start with, "Hey, Work Wives!"

Vanessa: Plant nerd...

Holland: ...like plants everywhere.

Vanessa: Like he doesn't have time to do a, like, plant Instagram because he's too busy finding cool plants, buying cool plants, and like, to, to his credit, and like, mostly at the insistence of his adorable wife, he has like, cashflowed this, where like, he likes, he likes really expensive plants are really rare plants, and so what he does is he like goes and finds them and buys them, and then he will propagate them and sell them.

Holland: ...clever thing to do.

Vanessa: ...he's doing a great job.

Holland: Congrats.

Vanessa: But yeah, he is like, he's the person that like, if you happen to be out in the woods, foraging for shit, you text him, you're like, is this going to kill me? And he will reply every time. Like that's his, like his social contract with us. Right. Like such a, such a, such a plant nerd. Like.

Holland: ...when you say that this man was going to go to dental school...

Vanessa: ...my God.